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	<title>Comments on: Put children first: Don’t hide classroom-level data from public</title>
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	<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/</link>
	<description>News and views on Utah public policy</description>
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		<title>By: Derek H Monson</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1992</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek H Monson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James,

Researchers and innovators have access to testing data, unless USOE doesn&#039;t want to release it to them...then they&#039;ll throw up bureaucratic roadblocks and bump you from person to person until you either give up, or getting the data loses its relevance simply due to time lapse. How do I know this?  First hand experience.

Like any bureaucratic agency, USOE cares about how it and the system it oversees is perceived.  And if they think your use of the data won&#039;t caste them (or the public education system) in a positive light, they will take advantage of the system to try to prevent you from getting the data, because the system gives them power to do so.  Again, I&#039;m only saying this because I&#039;ve experienced it for myself.  Researchers and innovators are not made equal in the mind of Utah&#039;s education overseers.

Derek Monson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>Researchers and innovators have access to testing data, unless USOE doesn&#8217;t want to release it to them&#8230;then they&#8217;ll throw up bureaucratic roadblocks and bump you from person to person until you either give up, or getting the data loses its relevance simply due to time lapse. How do I know this?  First hand experience.</p>
<p>Like any bureaucratic agency, USOE cares about how it and the system it oversees is perceived.  And if they think your use of the data won&#8217;t caste them (or the public education system) in a positive light, they will take advantage of the system to try to prevent you from getting the data, because the system gives them power to do so.  Again, I&#8217;m only saying this because I&#8217;ve experienced it for myself.  Researchers and innovators are not made equal in the mind of Utah&#8217;s education overseers.</p>
<p>Derek Monson</p>
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		<title>By: TryAgain Bubba</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1991</link>
		<dc:creator>TryAgain Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curious - does the Sutherland Institute, in the interest of being logically consistent, also support public disclosure of classroom level data in private schools attended by students whose tuition is subsidized by vouchers paid for by taxpayers? (Those people otherwise known as &quot;those who pay the bills that make the policy possible.&quot;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious &#8211; does the Sutherland Institute, in the interest of being logically consistent, also support public disclosure of classroom level data in private schools attended by students whose tuition is subsidized by vouchers paid for by taxpayers? (Those people otherwise known as &#8220;those who pay the bills that make the policy possible.&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: James Maughan</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1990</link>
		<dc:creator>James Maughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Monson,

Researchers and innovators already have access to testing data.  School community councils (which include many parents) also have access to this information.  Publishing individual class information would serve no purpose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Monson,</p>
<p>Researchers and innovators already have access to testing data.  School community councils (which include many parents) also have access to this information.  Publishing individual class information would serve no purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek H Monson</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek H Monson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A_frightened_American,

So, according to you, Utah shouldn&#039;t shouldn&#039;t be publicly release public school classroom information because some parents don&#039;t raise their children very well? I don&#039;t see the connection between parenting responsibilities and the need for government to be transparent with taxpayers in regards to things those taxpayers are paying for.

Your argument sounds more like an argument against using test scores as the primary basis for teacher pay or tenure decisions. If that&#039;s the case, then we actually agree with you, and have advocated that position repeatedly over the years (i.e. advocated for a comprehensive system of performance reviews to pay teachers and determine tenure, including things like test scores, fellow-teacher evaluations, principal evaluations, evaluations from involved parents, etc.).

But again, none of this has to do with transparency. Transparency is just a basic aspect of good government in a representative democracy such as ours.

Derek Monson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A_frightened_American,</p>
<p>So, according to you, Utah shouldn&#8217;t shouldn&#8217;t be publicly release public school classroom information because some parents don&#8217;t raise their children very well? I don&#8217;t see the connection between parenting responsibilities and the need for government to be transparent with taxpayers in regards to things those taxpayers are paying for.</p>
<p>Your argument sounds more like an argument against using test scores as the primary basis for teacher pay or tenure decisions. If that&#8217;s the case, then we actually agree with you, and have advocated that position repeatedly over the years (i.e. advocated for a comprehensive system of performance reviews to pay teachers and determine tenure, including things like test scores, fellow-teacher evaluations, principal evaluations, evaluations from involved parents, etc.).</p>
<p>But again, none of this has to do with transparency. Transparency is just a basic aspect of good government in a representative democracy such as ours.</p>
<p>Derek Monson</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Monson</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1988</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Monson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jbt,

I would refer you back to the blog post.  Specifically, the paragraph that starts &quot;beyond all of these policy considerations...&quot;

Derek Monson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jbt,</p>
<p>I would refer you back to the blog post.  Specifically, the paragraph that starts &#8220;beyond all of these policy considerations&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Derek Monson</p>
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		<title>By: Derek H Monson</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1987</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek H Monson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1987</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Craig,

To answer your question, one way to release classroom
level information without violating the law against releasing individual
 evaluation data is to simply not attach a teacher&#039;s name to the
publicly available version of their classroom&#039;s average scores, instead
using some kind of id number for each teacher that doesn&#039;t change from
one year to the next - much like we track many pieces of information on many people over time. The state has taken this exact approach in
publishing financial information on transparent.utah.gov when an
individual&#039;s identity must by law be protected (e.g. Medicaid payments
to individual Medicaid recipients).

But the more important point
which you didn&#039;t touch, and the real point of my blog post, is that the
focus of this policy discussion (and most other education policy
discussions) should be what is in the best interest of children, rather
than things like the privacy of public school teachers. Of course you
have to follow the law, but nothing in the law says that the school
board should or must put the interest of adults (teacher privacy) above
the best interests of children (giving education entrepreneurs and
researchers easy access to tools to help improve education practice in
Utah, to the benefit of every child in the state&#039;s public schools).

The
 real point is that instead of trying to take a real stand for the best
interests of children by publicly releasing information that could help
improve their education, the school board instead wanted to follow an
approach that compromised the interests of children to the interests of
adults in the system, before they backed away from doing anything due to
 legal confusion. This has nothing to do with what the law says or
doesn&#039;t say in this case. It has everything to do with how many (though not all) decision
makers approach public education in the state: talking about the best
interests of children while acting in the interest of adults at the
expense of children.

Derek Monson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,</p>
<p>To answer your question, one way to release classroom<br />
level information without violating the law against releasing individual<br />
 evaluation data is to simply not attach a teacher&#8217;s name to the<br />
publicly available version of their classroom&#8217;s average scores, instead<br />
using some kind of id number for each teacher that doesn&#8217;t change from<br />
one year to the next &#8211; much like we track many pieces of information on many people over time. The state has taken this exact approach in<br />
publishing financial information on transparent.utah.gov when an<br />
individual&#8217;s identity must by law be protected (e.g. Medicaid payments<br />
to individual Medicaid recipients).</p>
<p>But the more important point<br />
which you didn&#8217;t touch, and the real point of my blog post, is that the<br />
focus of this policy discussion (and most other education policy<br />
discussions) should be what is in the best interest of children, rather<br />
than things like the privacy of public school teachers. Of course you<br />
have to follow the law, but nothing in the law says that the school<br />
board should or must put the interest of adults (teacher privacy) above<br />
the best interests of children (giving education entrepreneurs and<br />
researchers easy access to tools to help improve education practice in<br />
Utah, to the benefit of every child in the state&#8217;s public schools).</p>
<p>The<br />
 real point is that instead of trying to take a real stand for the best<br />
interests of children by publicly releasing information that could help<br />
improve their education, the school board instead wanted to follow an<br />
approach that compromised the interests of children to the interests of<br />
adults in the system, before they backed away from doing anything due to<br />
 legal confusion. This has nothing to do with what the law says or<br />
doesn&#8217;t say in this case. It has everything to do with how many (though not all) decision<br />
makers approach public education in the state: talking about the best<br />
interests of children while acting in the interest of adults at the<br />
expense of children.</p>
<p>Derek Monson</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Mero</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1986</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Mero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a bit incredulous about your comment...though thank you, sincerely, for commenting and for your insight. The conflict is hardly a serious issue to surmount if your goal is to open the data vault to professional analyses with the objective of increasing the quality of education in Utah. It&#039;s not difficult. And, if your comment is a serious invitation for Sutherland to craft appropriate and balanced language, we&#039;re happy to help.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit incredulous about your comment&#8230;though thank you, sincerely, for commenting and for your insight. The conflict is hardly a serious issue to surmount if your goal is to open the data vault to professional analyses with the objective of increasing the quality of education in Utah. It&#8217;s not difficult. And, if your comment is a serious invitation for Sutherland to craft appropriate and balanced language, we&#8217;re happy to help.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Coleman</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1985</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting simplification of a complex issue.  The question is:  Should classroom level data on criterion referenced tests or any other tests be made available to the public?  Like any other person or entity in Utah, the State Board of Education must comply with state law.  Utah Code directs that the State Board &quot;. . . shall adopt rules for the conduct and administration of U-PASS to include the following: . . . compiling of criterion-referenced, online computer adaptive, and online writing test scores and test score averages at the classroom level . . .&quot; (53A-1-603(4)(d)).  That sounds simple enough except that SB 64, passed in the last legislative session, directed that &quot;the State Board of Education shall make rules to ensure the privacy and protection of individual evaluation data.&quot;  (This includes administrators, teachers and other school employees.). Because the same statute directs that student growth and achievement is to be used to evaluate teachers, the publication of average test scores from individual classrooms would violate the provisions of the new statute to protect the privacy of individual evaluation data. Is anyone surprised that conflicts might be found in state code?  How then does the State Board write a rule that satisfies the spirit and intent of both provisions of the law?  Much effort has already been expended to reconcile the conflict and write a rule that satisfies those who wish to make the data accessible and those who wish to protect the privacy of individual teachers.  Perhaps the Sutherland Institute has some concrete suggestions on how that can be accomplished.  Such input would be much more welcome than the cynical approach taken in this article.  For now, the State Board has chosen to not amend their rules until state law can be clarified in the next legislative session.

Craig Coleman
Utah State Board of Education]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting simplification of a complex issue.  The question is:  Should classroom level data on criterion referenced tests or any other tests be made available to the public?  Like any other person or entity in Utah, the State Board of Education must comply with state law.  Utah Code directs that the State Board &#8220;. . . shall adopt rules for the conduct and administration of U-PASS to include the following: . . . compiling of criterion-referenced, online computer adaptive, and online writing test scores and test score averages at the classroom level . . .&#8221; (53A-1-603(4)(d)).  That sounds simple enough except that SB 64, passed in the last legislative session, directed that &#8220;the State Board of Education shall make rules to ensure the privacy and protection of individual evaluation data.&#8221;  (This includes administrators, teachers and other school employees.). Because the same statute directs that student growth and achievement is to be used to evaluate teachers, the publication of average test scores from individual classrooms would violate the provisions of the new statute to protect the privacy of individual evaluation data. Is anyone surprised that conflicts might be found in state code?  How then does the State Board write a rule that satisfies the spirit and intent of both provisions of the law?  Much effort has already been expended to reconcile the conflict and write a rule that satisfies those who wish to make the data accessible and those who wish to protect the privacy of individual teachers.  Perhaps the Sutherland Institute has some concrete suggestions on how that can be accomplished.  Such input would be much more welcome than the cynical approach taken in this article.  For now, the State Board has chosen to not amend their rules until state law can be clarified in the next legislative session.</p>
<p>Craig Coleman<br />
Utah State Board of Education</p>
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		<title>By: A_frightened_American</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1984</link>
		<dc:creator>A_frightened_American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a former elementary school teacher, I do agree with disclosure of schoolwide stats.  But taking it to individual classrooms is too much.  There are too many variables that cannot be controlled by a teacher in their classroom.

Chief among those are the effectiveness of parenting by parents of students.  A teacher has no way of controlling effort on the part of students.  If parents fail to support and see that homework is completed, or provide a home environment that values -- instead of denigrating -- education there is no way a teacher, no matter how good or bad, may overcome that kind of influence.  Education, by its very nature, must be at least a two-way partnership between the teacher and students.  In elementary, middle and even high school, it must be a three-way partnership that includes parents.

Disclosure of statistics at a classroom level would be valid only if the teacher were taking the students  home every night to be able to control the climate at home.  It would work only if the teacher could dictate bedtimes.  Determine how much TV is watched or video games are played in the home.

How about setting up an evaluation of parents by teachers?  If classroom statistics are to be published, how about including the names and grades of individual students and their parents?

I can tell you from experience that even good teachers may sometimes be dealt students who are impossible to teach.  I&#039;ve seen excellent teachers go from being highly successful one year to &quot;failure&quot; the next.  But the failure was not the doing of the teacher.

Other teachers know full well who the poor teachers are.  It would be much more realistic to find a way to force lackadaisical administrators to do their jobs and get rid of the poor teachers.  I often advocated a system which would eliminate the principal and replace him or her with a committee of classroom teachers to handle educational administration in a school.   Instead of a principal supervising all aspects of school operations, turn the school secretary (who does most of the real work in the office anyway) into a business manager who is paid what she is really worth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former elementary school teacher, I do agree with disclosure of schoolwide stats.  But taking it to individual classrooms is too much.  There are too many variables that cannot be controlled by a teacher in their classroom.</p>
<p>Chief among those are the effectiveness of parenting by parents of students.  A teacher has no way of controlling effort on the part of students.  If parents fail to support and see that homework is completed, or provide a home environment that values &#8212; instead of denigrating &#8212; education there is no way a teacher, no matter how good or bad, may overcome that kind of influence.  Education, by its very nature, must be at least a two-way partnership between the teacher and students.  In elementary, middle and even high school, it must be a three-way partnership that includes parents.</p>
<p>Disclosure of statistics at a classroom level would be valid only if the teacher were taking the students  home every night to be able to control the climate at home.  It would work only if the teacher could dictate bedtimes.  Determine how much TV is watched or video games are played in the home.</p>
<p>How about setting up an evaluation of parents by teachers?  If classroom statistics are to be published, how about including the names and grades of individual students and their parents?</p>
<p>I can tell you from experience that even good teachers may sometimes be dealt students who are impossible to teach.  I&#8217;ve seen excellent teachers go from being highly successful one year to &#8220;failure&#8221; the next.  But the failure was not the doing of the teacher.</p>
<p>Other teachers know full well who the poor teachers are.  It would be much more realistic to find a way to force lackadaisical administrators to do their jobs and get rid of the poor teachers.  I often advocated a system which would eliminate the principal and replace him or her with a committee of classroom teachers to handle educational administration in a school.   Instead of a principal supervising all aspects of school operations, turn the school secretary (who does most of the real work in the office anyway) into a business manager who is paid what she is really worth.</p>
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		<title>By: jbt</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2012/10/15/put-children-first-dont-hide-classroom-level-data-from-public/#comment-1983</link>
		<dc:creator>jbt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news_old/?p=3981#comment-1983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Derek  To what purpose would giving information about a specific class to an individual who does not have a student in that classroom or school serve?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek  To what purpose would giving information about a specific class to an individual who does not have a student in that classroom or school serve?</p>
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