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	<title>Comments on: Responses to criticisms of Sutherland’s position on nondiscrimination ordinances</title>
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	<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/</link>
	<description>News and views on Utah public policy</description>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1412</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JBT, you never answered my questions about pedophilia being de-criminalized or societies where it is not criminal.  There are societies where, at least until recently, cannibalism is not criminal.  What about discrimination or prejudice against cannibals?

I think you hide behind the &quot;legality&quot; of aberrant behavior.  For centuries, homosexuality WAS illegal in many societies.  Your arguments fall apart if homosexuality IS against the law, but I am sure you would THEN argue AGAINST the law.   I suspect you would make the same arguments about abortion, but your position would be just as weak.

You make judgements about right and wrong, but your real commitment appears to be to deviant behavior and you use any argument that you can find to support it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JBT, you never answered my questions about pedophilia being de-criminalized or societies where it is not criminal.  There are societies where, at least until recently, cannibalism is not criminal.  What about discrimination or prejudice against cannibals?</p>
<p>I think you hide behind the &#8220;legality&#8221; of aberrant behavior.  For centuries, homosexuality WAS illegal in many societies.  Your arguments fall apart if homosexuality IS against the law, but I am sure you would THEN argue AGAINST the law.   I suspect you would make the same arguments about abortion, but your position would be just as weak.</p>
<p>You make judgements about right and wrong, but your real commitment appears to be to deviant behavior and you use any argument that you can find to support it.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1411</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, JBT, you bounce back and forth.  You say &quot;...gays are God&#039;s children too...&quot; as if you believe in God, but deny that God could say homosexual behavior is inappropriate.  It is not just the LDS Church that takes that stand.  The Bible is pretty consistent about &quot;men with men working  that which is unseemly&quot;.

If you are gay, God did not make you that way.  You had your own identity before God gave you the chance to some to earth.  He knows what you need to do to maximize your opportunities in the next life and being gay will limit those opportunities.  

You should still be treated well by any decent person, LDS or not, but that does not require special status in the law, like preference in hiring or housing.  Nor does being treated equally require ratification of your choices by those who choose differently.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, JBT, you bounce back and forth.  You say &#8220;&#8230;gays are God&#8217;s children too&#8230;&#8221; as if you believe in God, but deny that God could say homosexual behavior is inappropriate.  It is not just the LDS Church that takes that stand.  The Bible is pretty consistent about &#8220;men with men working  that which is unseemly&#8221;.</p>
<p>If you are gay, God did not make you that way.  You had your own identity before God gave you the chance to some to earth.  He knows what you need to do to maximize your opportunities in the next life and being gay will limit those opportunities.  </p>
<p>You should still be treated well by any decent person, LDS or not, but that does not require special status in the law, like preference in hiring or housing.  Nor does being treated equally require ratification of your choices by those who choose differently.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1410</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JBT, you have a seriously flawed understanding of LDS theology.  God did not &quot;make&quot; millions of people gay in LDS doctrine.  Your parents did not &quot;make&quot; your personality, they gave you a body and presumably tried to help you learn how to function in society.  You came with your own personality and have exercised the God-given right to make your own choices.  

Asking why God made gays is as much a straw man argument as asking why He made Satan (or evil).  He made neither.  He doesn&#039;t have to approve of or &quot;validate&quot; choices to engage in behavior that limits future opportunities for growth and learning and neither does His church.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JBT, you have a seriously flawed understanding of LDS theology.  God did not &#8220;make&#8221; millions of people gay in LDS doctrine.  Your parents did not &#8220;make&#8221; your personality, they gave you a body and presumably tried to help you learn how to function in society.  You came with your own personality and have exercised the God-given right to make your own choices.  </p>
<p>Asking why God made gays is as much a straw man argument as asking why He made Satan (or evil).  He made neither.  He doesn&#8217;t have to approve of or &#8220;validate&#8221; choices to engage in behavior that limits future opportunities for growth and learning and neither does His church.</p>
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		<title>By: JBT</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1409</link>
		<dc:creator>JBT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a society of laws those who break the law and through their criminal acts represent a danger to society lose some of their rights---freedom, gun ownership, right of association, right to vote to name a few.  This is not discrimination but the response of a system of justice to lawbreaking behavior.

Homosexuals are not pedophiles, nor are they law breakers.  They are men and women just like you and me who want to be treated equally with law abiding heterosexuals in society.  That homosexuality is a sin is simply a religious belief.  A BELIEF, and nothing more.  There are many Christian denominations who welcome gays, and gay couples into their congregations.  There are many churches led gay ministers and pastors.  There are many denominations who perform gay marriages and accept them as a blessed union under God of a couple who love one another and want to share their lives together.  Unfortunately the LDS faith still doesn&#039;t get it that gays are God&#039;s children too and deserve to be treated as such.  A question for the LDS faithful. . . . if &quot;Heavenly Father&quot; believes homosexuality is a sin, why did he make millions of people with that sexual orientation?????

Discrimination based upon one&#039;s sexual orientation is wrong.  Discrimination based upon the color of one&#039;s skin is wrong.  Discrimination based upon one&#039;s religion is wrong.  Discrimination based upon one&#039;s nationality is wrong.  Discrimination of any class of people just because they are &quot;different&quot; than you is wrong.  

Prejudice and bigotry dressed up as moral values is still prejudice and bigotry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a society of laws those who break the law and through their criminal acts represent a danger to society lose some of their rights&#8212;freedom, gun ownership, right of association, right to vote to name a few.  This is not discrimination but the response of a system of justice to lawbreaking behavior.</p>
<p>Homosexuals are not pedophiles, nor are they law breakers.  They are men and women just like you and me who want to be treated equally with law abiding heterosexuals in society.  That homosexuality is a sin is simply a religious belief.  A BELIEF, and nothing more.  There are many Christian denominations who welcome gays, and gay couples into their congregations.  There are many churches led gay ministers and pastors.  There are many denominations who perform gay marriages and accept them as a blessed union under God of a couple who love one another and want to share their lives together.  Unfortunately the LDS faith still doesn&#8217;t get it that gays are God&#8217;s children too and deserve to be treated as such.  A question for the LDS faithful. . . . if &#8220;Heavenly Father&#8221; believes homosexuality is a sin, why did he make millions of people with that sexual orientation?????</p>
<p>Discrimination based upon one&#8217;s sexual orientation is wrong.  Discrimination based upon the color of one&#8217;s skin is wrong.  Discrimination based upon one&#8217;s religion is wrong.  Discrimination based upon one&#8217;s nationality is wrong.  Discrimination of any class of people just because they are &#8220;different&#8221; than you is wrong.  </p>
<p>Prejudice and bigotry dressed up as moral values is still prejudice and bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1408</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You apparently accept discrimination against people who exhibit &quot;criminal behavior.&quot;  Such discrimination presumably includes not just limited choices in housing or employment, but fines and incarceration.  So you by implication violate your assertion that discrimination is always wrong.  Really, your choice of when discrimination is acceptable or not is your system of morality, maybe even your &quot;religion.&quot;  

In the absence of a Supreme Being or some other source of universal moral authority, your system is not any more applicable to others than theirs is to you.  IF there is a Supreme Being or God who has declared that homosexuality is a self-defeating behavior that is unacceptable, your system of morality will ultimately be irrelevant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You apparently accept discrimination against people who exhibit &#8220;criminal behavior.&#8221;  Such discrimination presumably includes not just limited choices in housing or employment, but fines and incarceration.  So you by implication violate your assertion that discrimination is always wrong.  Really, your choice of when discrimination is acceptable or not is your system of morality, maybe even your &#8220;religion.&#8221;  </p>
<p>In the absence of a Supreme Being or some other source of universal moral authority, your system is not any more applicable to others than theirs is to you.  IF there is a Supreme Being or God who has declared that homosexuality is a self-defeating behavior that is unacceptable, your system of morality will ultimately be irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1407</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If or when pedophilia is decriminalized what position would you then take?

In a society where pedophilia is not criminal, what is your position?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If or when pedophilia is decriminalized what position would you then take?</p>
<p>In a society where pedophilia is not criminal, what is your position?</p>
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		<title>By: JBT</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>JBT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pedophilia is a criminal behavior.  Being a homosexual is not.  Any other questions Buffy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pedophilia is a criminal behavior.  Being a homosexual is not.  Any other questions Buffy?</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy Snell</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1405</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy Snell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Would you also consider it bigotry to use your personal moral values to justify discrimination against someone for pedophilia?  Would you allow them to work at your daycare?  Why or why not?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you also consider it bigotry to use your personal moral values to justify discrimination against someone for pedophilia?  Would you allow them to work at your daycare?  Why or why not?</p>
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		<title>By: JBT</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1404</link>
		<dc:creator>JBT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would argue that a gay individual is a human being who is entitled to the same rights as other human beings, and as such should not be discriminated against simply because of that person&#039;s sexual orientation.  It is morally and ethically wrong in our society to discriminate against any group of people based upon who they are as individuals.  To do so is to practice prejudice and bigotry against a class of people. To use one&#039;s personal moral values to justify discrimination is as wrong as the discrimination itself.  

It is repugnant to me that there are those in Utah who puff themselves up as morally superior to others who are not like themselves, and wish to discriminate against those individuals they have labeled inferior and not deserving of the same rights as everyone else.

Prejudice and bigotry dressed up as moral values, is still prejudice and bigotry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would argue that a gay individual is a human being who is entitled to the same rights as other human beings, and as such should not be discriminated against simply because of that person&#8217;s sexual orientation.  It is morally and ethically wrong in our society to discriminate against any group of people based upon who they are as individuals.  To do so is to practice prejudice and bigotry against a class of people. To use one&#8217;s personal moral values to justify discrimination is as wrong as the discrimination itself.  </p>
<p>It is repugnant to me that there are those in Utah who puff themselves up as morally superior to others who are not like themselves, and wish to discriminate against those individuals they have labeled inferior and not deserving of the same rights as everyone else.</p>
<p>Prejudice and bigotry dressed up as moral values, is still prejudice and bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Mero</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/12/08/responses-to-criticisms-of-sutherlands-position-on-nondiscrimination-ordinances/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Mero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1890#comment-1403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m curious and interested to understand your use of the word &quot;wrong.&quot;  Under what moral understanding of the human person is discrimination on the basis of &quot;sexual orientation&quot; and &quot;gender identity&quot; wrong?  Are you using the term &quot;wrong&quot; because you believe &quot;sexual orientation&quot; and &quot;gender identity&quot; is synonymous with &quot;human person&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious and interested to understand your use of the word &#8220;wrong.&#8221;  Under what moral understanding of the human person is discrimination on the basis of &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; and &#8220;gender identity&#8221; wrong?  Are you using the term &#8220;wrong&#8221; because you believe &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; and &#8220;gender identity&#8221; is synonymous with &#8220;human person&#8221;?</p>
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