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	<title>Comments on: Bye-bye, collective bargaining?</title>
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	<description>News and views on Utah public policy</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 04:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am befuddled by those who continue to espouse the idea that public education should be run by some business model. Is there room for improvement in public education? Absolutely! Will that improvement come by taking away the voice of those most invested in its improvement? Absolutely not!

I have a difficult time understanding how a man with Mr. Stevenson&#039;s experience can be so ignorant about public education. Howard Stevenson needs to spend several days in classrooms across the state (that&#039;s days, not minutes). Perhaps then he will understand that the teachers, and their professional associations, are not the problem - they are the solution. He may also begin to understand that the problems faced in the typical Utah classroom are not the result of an abundance of poor teachers, they are the result of a society that is cutting itself adrift from the values and standards upon which this great nation was founded. Perhaps that will lead Mr. Stevenson to put his time and effort into legislation that helps solves the problems we face in public education instead of creating additional problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am befuddled by those who continue to espouse the idea that public education should be run by some business model. Is there room for improvement in public education? Absolutely! Will that improvement come by taking away the voice of those most invested in its improvement? Absolutely not!</p>
<p>I have a difficult time understanding how a man with Mr. Stevenson&#8217;s experience can be so ignorant about public education. Howard Stevenson needs to spend several days in classrooms across the state (that&#8217;s days, not minutes). Perhaps then he will understand that the teachers, and their professional associations, are not the problem &#8211; they are the solution. He may also begin to understand that the problems faced in the typical Utah classroom are not the result of an abundance of poor teachers, they are the result of a society that is cutting itself adrift from the values and standards upon which this great nation was founded. Perhaps that will lead Mr. Stevenson to put his time and effort into legislation that helps solves the problems we face in public education instead of creating additional problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 04:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am befuddled by those who continue to espouse the idea that public education should be run by some business model. Is there room for improvement in public education? Absolutely! Will that improvement come by taking away the voice of those most invested in its improvement? Absolutely not!

I have a difficult time understanding how a man with Mr. Stevenson&#039;s experience can be so ignorant about public education. Howard Stevenson needs to spend several days in classrooms across the state (that&#039;s days, not minutes). Perhaps then he will understand that the teachers, and their professional associations, are not the problem - they are the solution. He may also begin to understand that the problems faced in the typical Utah classroom are not the result of an abundance of poor teachers, they are the result of a society that is cutting itself adrift from the values and standards upon which this great nation was founded. Perhaps that will lead Mr. Stevenson to put his time and effort into legislation that helps solves the problems we face in public education instead of creating additional problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am befuddled by those who continue to espouse the idea that public education should be run by some business model. Is there room for improvement in public education? Absolutely! Will that improvement come by taking away the voice of those most invested in its improvement? Absolutely not!</p>
<p>I have a difficult time understanding how a man with Mr. Stevenson&#8217;s experience can be so ignorant about public education. Howard Stevenson needs to spend several days in classrooms across the state (that&#8217;s days, not minutes). Perhaps then he will understand that the teachers, and their professional associations, are not the problem &#8211; they are the solution. He may also begin to understand that the problems faced in the typical Utah classroom are not the result of an abundance of poor teachers, they are the result of a society that is cutting itself adrift from the values and standards upon which this great nation was founded. Perhaps that will lead Mr. Stevenson to put his time and effort into legislation that helps solves the problems we face in public education instead of creating additional problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 00:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On average, unions/public workers=democrats/liberal.  On average, corporations=republican/conservative.  If elected republicans are anti-union and pro-corporations it helps bolster their base and defeat their political opponents.  It&#039;s the history of the decline of unions in the 20th Century, both public and private;  all at the hands of conservatives and corporations.

Sen. Stephenson implies that he values math/science yet is incapable of showing, with any scientific research, that collective bargaining is causing any of the problems he thinks it is.  His proposal is a solution in search of a problem (or more likely just another attack on unions and teachers, despite his plea to the contrary).  He ignores the scientific research that shows that performance pay and extrinsic motivators do not work in schools or for many types of work that are similar to teaching (see the Vanderbilt study and Daniel Pink&#039;s review).

He leads the education wing of the legislature that has continuously underfunded education to the tune of being LAST in the nation.  If Sen. Stephenson could invest in a company whose costs/resource use were the LEAST of any of its competitors in the marketplace yet produced above average outcomes (revenue) he&#039;d be overjoyed, I&#039;m sure, and be proposing it as a model for the world.  Yet when Utah education produces above average results with the LEAST funding in the nation and highest class sizes, he does not praise the amazing job that teachers/staff must be doing nor does he suggest that what&#039;s happening in public education should be replicated.  Instead he attacks it at every turn.

Sen. Stephenson forgets that he is a public servant.  He is not serving the public good.  He may be serving his base and his lobbyists, but he&#039;s not serving the public good when it comes to education.

Perhaps if he treated himself and others the way he treats teachers he might gain some insight.  I challenge Sen. Stephenson to introduce legislation that allows the public to evaluate them on a yearly basis.  This test will allow us to pay some legislators more than others, as some are obviously doing a better job and it will improve competition between legislators.  He also should propose that this should be the case for police, fire, and military.  He should also propose tax credits for individuals or families that want to opt out of having their legislator be paid because they&#039;d rather use that money to hire a private lobbyist or lawyer to represent them and their family.

I don&#039;t have enough room to point out all the poor logic and lack of empirical evidence in the poor rhetoric used by Stevenson and his colleagues.  It&#039;s just sad that people such as this are in decision making roles for anything associated with education.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On average, unions/public workers=democrats/liberal.  On average, corporations=republican/conservative.  If elected republicans are anti-union and pro-corporations it helps bolster their base and defeat their political opponents.  It&#8217;s the history of the decline of unions in the 20th Century, both public and private;  all at the hands of conservatives and corporations.</p>
<p>Sen. Stephenson implies that he values math/science yet is incapable of showing, with any scientific research, that collective bargaining is causing any of the problems he thinks it is.  His proposal is a solution in search of a problem (or more likely just another attack on unions and teachers, despite his plea to the contrary).  He ignores the scientific research that shows that performance pay and extrinsic motivators do not work in schools or for many types of work that are similar to teaching (see the Vanderbilt study and Daniel Pink&#8217;s review).</p>
<p>He leads the education wing of the legislature that has continuously underfunded education to the tune of being LAST in the nation.  If Sen. Stephenson could invest in a company whose costs/resource use were the LEAST of any of its competitors in the marketplace yet produced above average outcomes (revenue) he&#8217;d be overjoyed, I&#8217;m sure, and be proposing it as a model for the world.  Yet when Utah education produces above average results with the LEAST funding in the nation and highest class sizes, he does not praise the amazing job that teachers/staff must be doing nor does he suggest that what&#8217;s happening in public education should be replicated.  Instead he attacks it at every turn.</p>
<p>Sen. Stephenson forgets that he is a public servant.  He is not serving the public good.  He may be serving his base and his lobbyists, but he&#8217;s not serving the public good when it comes to education.</p>
<p>Perhaps if he treated himself and others the way he treats teachers he might gain some insight.  I challenge Sen. Stephenson to introduce legislation that allows the public to evaluate them on a yearly basis.  This test will allow us to pay some legislators more than others, as some are obviously doing a better job and it will improve competition between legislators.  He also should propose that this should be the case for police, fire, and military.  He should also propose tax credits for individuals or families that want to opt out of having their legislator be paid because they&#8217;d rather use that money to hire a private lobbyist or lawyer to represent them and their family.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have enough room to point out all the poor logic and lack of empirical evidence in the poor rhetoric used by Stevenson and his colleagues.  It&#8217;s just sad that people such as this are in decision making roles for anything associated with education.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherree0</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1179</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherree0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why does the legislature think giving employees a voice about their employment, conditions, pay is bad policy?  What happens when teachers have no voice and are dictated to by administration/legislators?  Do you think this really improves education?  What is the hidden agenda here?  Could it be that the legislators (Mr. Stevenson) just dislikes the idea that a &quot;liberal group like the teachers union&quot; can have a say in how the education system is run? I think society has forgotten history.  Unions were formed to help protect workers when they were being abused, working in unsafe conditions, and completely repressed and at the mercy of owners and management.  Terrible things happened to workers that only changed when unions gained power. Today the teachers who don&#039;t join the union do so mainly because they don&#039;t want to pay the dues and can gain the benefits by being parasites on the paying members.  NOT because they are morally opposed to unions and collective bargaining.   They are generally apathetic.    I am disappointed that human beings never learn life lessons.  We must keep repeating the mistakes of the past over and over.  As they say &quot;history repeats itself....&quot;  Maybe the legislators need to read their history books and refresh their memories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does the legislature think giving employees a voice about their employment, conditions, pay is bad policy?  What happens when teachers have no voice and are dictated to by administration/legislators?  Do you think this really improves education?  What is the hidden agenda here?  Could it be that the legislators (Mr. Stevenson) just dislikes the idea that a &#8220;liberal group like the teachers union&#8221; can have a say in how the education system is run? I think society has forgotten history.  Unions were formed to help protect workers when they were being abused, working in unsafe conditions, and completely repressed and at the mercy of owners and management.  Terrible things happened to workers that only changed when unions gained power. Today the teachers who don&#8217;t join the union do so mainly because they don&#8217;t want to pay the dues and can gain the benefits by being parasites on the paying members.  NOT because they are morally opposed to unions and collective bargaining.   They are generally apathetic.    I am disappointed that human beings never learn life lessons.  We must keep repeating the mistakes of the past over and over.  As they say &#8220;history repeats itself&#8230;.&#8221;  Maybe the legislators need to read their history books and refresh their memories.</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course nobody should eliminate collective bargaining. We just need to convince the Legislature that we&#039;re serious about switching to a performance-based pay scale, and getting away from tenure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course nobody should eliminate collective bargaining. We just need to convince the Legislature that we&#8217;re serious about switching to a performance-based pay scale, and getting away from tenure.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2011/08/16/bye-bye-collective-bargaining/#comment-1177</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/news/?p=1136#comment-1177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, stay out of it. All the Legislature is doing is trying to pass the blame for how bad they are doing. Let&#039;s make the teachers look bad!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, stay out of it. All the Legislature is doing is trying to pass the blame for how bad they are doing. Let&#8217;s make the teachers look bad!</p>
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