Comments on: Public employee unions: a ‘50-year mistake’?

By: Derek H. Monson

Derek H. Monson — Wed, 25 May 2011 20:23:00 +0000

I am commenting on the due diligence and the logic (or lack thereof) underlying your post, so the amount of research I’ve done on Matt’s facts is irrelevant. If I was trying to defend the facts that Matt cites, then you may have a point. The questions you pose to me seem more like a distraction from the point than anything relevant to the discussion.

I commend you for doing your due diligence on the facts that you disagree with. However, there’s still some basic logic that’s lacking in your comment on Matt’s blog post.

You believe that Matt’s intent is simply to “Public Employee Bash,” but is there one comment in Matt’s post that directly disparages public employees? Matt cites a few examples of local unions in Utah expressing their views on local issues, references quotes from a few national figures about the merits of public employee unions, and then asks some legitimate questions about whether unions for government employees are a good thing. It seems rather irrational to look at that and then start ranting about “Public Employee Bashing” and comparing someone who would ask such questions to a tabloid writer. Such statements seem to say more about an over-sensitivity on your part to the issues surrounding public employee unions than about the validity of Matt’s post.

By: aDifferentTake

aDifferentTake — Wed, 25 May 2011 18:45:00 +0000

Can you tell me what the problem would be if the school district had to bargain with each teacher individually?
You say it would be se discussions. time consuming, but teachers already have to go through annual performance evaluations (along with a ton of other red-tape evaluations) — the only real difference here would be that money would be included in tho
You say morale will be non-existent, but I believe that there is little incentive for teachers now — it doesn’t matter if you’re a good or bad teacher, your pay depends on your certifications and tenure. If we introduced an amount of competition (like there is in the real world), the good teachers would win and the bad teachers would lose. This will improve morale because the good teachers would be recognized and rewarded for their efforts, while the bad ones will be incentivized to find a job better suited to their talents. (Yes, I’m actually suggesting that we have some bad teachers — I grew up in Utah, and had my fair share of them. Anybody who says that all teachers are good teachers needs to take a closer look.)
You say that the lesislature and others don’t care about what the “people” want. Well, I’m one of those “people” — and it’s my tax dollars that help pay teacher salaries. The US education system keeps falling in the OECD rankings, but yet we keep doing things the same way that they’ve been done for generations. It’s insanity to do more of the same and expect a different result. Maybe if we introduced a few important changes — and I can think of nothing more pertinent in this dicussion than money — our education system could start to compete with the rest of the industrialized world.

By: aDifferentTake

aDifferentTake — Wed, 25 May 2011 17:50:00 +0000

Stinking browser… In the previous post, please move the "se discussions" on the 2nd line to the end of the 4th line.

By: Sedickson

Sedickson — Wed, 25 May 2011 13:46:00 +0000

Actually Derek I did not only skim it. But just a skim actually allowed me to make a decision as to whether or not I would read the article.
I actually read it and followed all the threads and references. I also actually looked up all the facts relating to the article to see how much they apply to public workers in the State of Utah. How about you? Did you find out how factual the information was? How and even if it did or could apply to Utah State public employees?
Problem here is that too many accept comments and articles such as this without finding out if they are applicable to the area in which they live or just public employee bashing. I am informed and I stand by my comparison to the Enquirer etc.
By the way, Derek, after further study I did find that the State Human Resources is in the process of doing a Comparative Salary Servery (not to be confused with a MCA) which should be completed in September. I am still finding facts and researching. How about you?

By: Derek H. Monson

Derek H. Monson — Tue, 24 May 2011 22:38:00 +0000

If you’re going to publicly express such decided and disparaging opinions, you may at least want to do everyone the courtesy of thoroughly reading what you’re going to spout off on. Seriously, if all you’re doing, by your own admission, is “skimming” Matt’s piece and commenting on it, then you’re just telling the world that your opinion is likely either baseless, uneducated, or otherwise grounded in something other than reasonable consideration of what Matt actually wrote. In which case, the comparison of the National Enquirer, Star, “and other publications of such ilk” would be more appropriately applied to your own post than to Matt’s.

By: Sedickson

Sedickson — Tue, 24 May 2011 21:18:00 +0000

I believe you will find that State Public Employee’s have not received a raise since 2001. They did receive a COLA four years ago this July which I believe was less than 1%. While at the same time the cost of their “benefits” went up and cost them, from 2001 to present, in excess of 13%, it may be as much as 20+%.
I believe that last MCA found that public employee’s compensation and benefits were well under the pay and benefit received by workers, private and public, in all the surrounding states, and the Legislature did not and will not approve of a MCA for 2012, so public employees wages will remain the same for the next two years, while the cost of their benefits and out of pocket costs will continue to go up.
It will be interesting to see if the information you find agrees with the Legislative Auditors and the Utah Department of Human Resources.

By: Sedickson

Sedickson — Tue, 24 May 2011 21:07:00 +0000

Matthew,
Just wondering. Did you bother to check your facts before publishing?
Is it your intent to publish informative views and news or to Public Employee Bash?
Because just skimming your article persuades me that it is the latter.
Which, in my opinion, makes this publication no better than the National Enquirer, Star, and other publications of such ilk.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 May 2011 15:52:00 +0000

Yes, let’s all demonize public employees. As long as we have state legislators living high on the hog with our tax dollars paying for their health insurance — for life if they are re-elected enough times — I’ll have a very hard time respecting them as they try to cut public employees who actually contribute to our general welfare.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 23 May 2011 21:05:00 +0000

I find it interesting that it is even discussed that those who work in public positions would not be allowed to be part of a union. Let’s see how a school district likes bargaining with each teacher individually! Not only will it be time consuming, but the morale will be non-existent and it won’t take long for many districts to see that they have far fewer teachers than positions. But then again, maybe that is what Utah citizens want. Although, the legislators, Eagle Forum and Sutherland Institute don’t seem to care what the “people” want. Only what big money wants.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 23 May 2011 20:25:00 +0000

Thanks for your comment, jotab.

Please note that the quote you’re referring to by Mr. Williams regards all public employees on average nationwide, not just educators or in Utah. Still, it would be interesting to see how Utah teacher salaries measure up to salaries in comparable industries (or private vs. public teacher salaries). We may look into that.